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	<title>Comments on: measure 36 debate and distortions</title>
	<link>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/</link>
	<description>...reverberating</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 07:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Asher Abrams</title>
		<link>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11042</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11042</guid>
					<description>Emily,

Thanks for posting this.

I am a child of gay parents.  

No, I wasn't raised by two men or two women.  My mother and my father were both homosexuals who stayed in the closet their whole lives.  It was miserable.  I watched my mother fall in love with other women and get her heart broken, and she could never say what it was that was causing her pain.  She was very bitter and could be incredibly cruel to people, especially my father and me.  My father was a kind and compassionate man who accepted Mom's abuse without complaint.  In a letter he wrote near the end of his life, he let on that he was gay.  I don't know whether he ever had an intimate relationship with another man.

I have no patience with the "experts" who think they can tell you all about homosexuality and how it can be "fixed".  Bigotry and intolerance are what need to be fixed.

Homophobia ruins lives.  VOTE NO ON 36.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily,</p>
<p>Thanks for posting this.</p>
<p>I am a child of gay parents.  </p>
<p>No, I wasn&#8217;t raised by two men or two women.  My mother and my father were both homosexuals who stayed in the closet their whole lives.  It was miserable.  I watched my mother fall in love with other women and get her heart broken, and she could never say what it was that was causing her pain.  She was very bitter and could be incredibly cruel to people, especially my father and me.  My father was a kind and compassionate man who accepted Mom&#8217;s abuse without complaint.  In a letter he wrote near the end of his life, he let on that he was gay.  I don&#8217;t know whether he ever had an intimate relationship with another man.</p>
<p>I have no patience with the &#8220;experts&#8221; who think they can tell you all about homosexuality and how it can be &#8220;fixed&#8221;.  Bigotry and intolerance are what need to be fixed.</p>
<p>Homophobia ruins lives.  VOTE NO ON 36.
</p>
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		<title>by: Pamela</title>
		<link>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11041</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11041</guid>
					<description>Thank you, Emily. 

I think what's really interesting is that so-called "Gender Specific" could only call out that section of my post ... no response to any other aspect. 

And you "miss the days when "I'm married" meant you were heterosexual."--this is what you miss, being able to determine someone's sexuality?!?!? I'm much more concerned with whether a couple is being guaranteed their civil rights.

There are a lot of things I miss, but it's never been high on my list of priorities to be able to discern someone's sexuality on contact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Emily. </p>
<p>I think what&#8217;s really interesting is that so-called &#8220;Gender Specific&#8221; could only call out that section of my post &#8230; no response to any other aspect. </p>
<p>And you &#8220;miss the days when &#8220;I&#8217;m married&#8221; meant you were heterosexual.&#8221;&#8211;this is what you miss, being able to determine someone&#8217;s sexuality?!?!? I&#8217;m much more concerned with whether a couple is being guaranteed their civil rights.</p>
<p>There are a lot of things I miss, but it&#8217;s never been high on my list of priorities to be able to discern someone&#8217;s sexuality on contact.
</p>
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		<title>by: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11040</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11040</guid>
					<description>Oh gimme a break! Pamela added that she was in a straight marriage not because she's embarrassed people will think she's gay, but because it helps to quell any suspicion of bias regarding her statement.  Too often, people will dismiss gay rights arguments because it's a gay person making the argument.  That's the reason she raised her marital status.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh gimme a break! Pamela added that she was in a straight marriage not because she&#8217;s embarrassed people will think she&#8217;s gay, but because it helps to quell any suspicion of bias regarding her statement.  Too often, people will dismiss gay rights arguments because it&#8217;s a gay person making the argument.  That&#8217;s the reason she raised her marital status.
</p>
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		<title>by: Gender Specific</title>
		<link>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11039</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11039</guid>
					<description>Isn't it so sad that people are now ending their blog posts with clarification that they're in a heterosexual relationship?  In a same-sex friendly world, wouldn't that seem like a slap in the face?  It's like they say, "I support same-sex marriage, but 'oh by the way, don't misconstrue my motivation here, I'm not one of those people.'"  Social discourse about sexuality has (sadly) taken an ambiguous turn.

I miss the days when "I'm married" meant you were heterosexual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it so sad that people are now ending their blog posts with clarification that they&#8217;re in a heterosexual relationship?  In a same-sex friendly world, wouldn&#8217;t that seem like a slap in the face?  It&#8217;s like they say, &#8220;I support same-sex marriage, but &#8216;oh by the way, don&#8217;t misconstrue my motivation here, I&#8217;m not one of those people.&#8217;&#8221;  Social discourse about sexuality has (sadly) taken an ambiguous turn.</p>
<p>I miss the days when &#8220;I&#8217;m married&#8221; meant you were heterosexual.
</p>
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		<title>by: Pamela</title>
		<link>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11038</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11038</guid>
					<description>I get so frustrated reading the rhetoric about two-parent households. I grew up in a two-parent household, one man, one woman, and it was a disaster. Here's a newsflash for all the family-first regurgitators, it's just not a perfect world of happily well-adjusted heterosexual couples out there, and children suffer in traditional households too. How do we guarantee ideal, or even just marginally healthy situations in one-man, one-woman households? If that's the concern, will we monitor heterosexual parents for suitability?

We would never even consider making it mandatory for people to take a mental health test prior to having children, and yet the fundamentalist right is spinning in circles wanting to take away basic human rights from people based on the simple fact that they love their own gender. Claiming that it's to "protect the children" is a ruse. If they are so concerned about the welfare of children, there are plenty of heterosexual parents that should be examined, and plenty of institutional inequalities that harm children in far more dire ways. There aren't even enough people willing to be foster parents out there, but we're suddenly worried about the consequences to these children--it's hypocracy.

Shall we take a look at all the unhappy products of children from the one-man, one-woman households where one or both of those parents are abusive? How about neglectful or addicted parents? How can you quantify an "ideal" child-raising situation. One of my best friends was raised by a healthy single parent and she's far better adjusted than many of us from a "traditional" marriage. 

It's a bogus silkscreen for a religiously-motivated agenda. And incidentally, I'm in a one-man, one-woman marriage in case my motivation should be misconstrued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get so frustrated reading the rhetoric about two-parent households. I grew up in a two-parent household, one man, one woman, and it was a disaster. Here&#8217;s a newsflash for all the family-first regurgitators, it&#8217;s just not a perfect world of happily well-adjusted heterosexual couples out there, and children suffer in traditional households too. How do we guarantee ideal, or even just marginally healthy situations in one-man, one-woman households? If that&#8217;s the concern, will we monitor heterosexual parents for suitability?</p>
<p>We would never even consider making it mandatory for people to take a mental health test prior to having children, and yet the fundamentalist right is spinning in circles wanting to take away basic human rights from people based on the simple fact that they love their own gender. Claiming that it&#8217;s to &#8220;protect the children&#8221; is a ruse. If they are so concerned about the welfare of children, there are plenty of heterosexual parents that should be examined, and plenty of institutional inequalities that harm children in far more dire ways. There aren&#8217;t even enough people willing to be foster parents out there, but we&#8217;re suddenly worried about the consequences to these children&#8211;it&#8217;s hypocracy.</p>
<p>Shall we take a look at all the unhappy products of children from the one-man, one-woman households where one or both of those parents are abusive? How about neglectful or addicted parents? How can you quantify an &#8220;ideal&#8221; child-raising situation. One of my best friends was raised by a healthy single parent and she&#8217;s far better adjusted than many of us from a &#8220;traditional&#8221; marriage. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bogus silkscreen for a religiously-motivated agenda. And incidentally, I&#8217;m in a one-man, one-woman marriage in case my motivation should be misconstrued.
</p>
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		<title>by: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11037</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11037</guid>
					<description>Well, "Gender Specific", isn't the point then that any studies comparing heterosexual and homosexual couples' childraising have been inconclusive?  I essentially said this already in my post: &lt;i&gt;...there have been no valid longitudinal studies of the effects on children raised by gay couples...&lt;/i&gt; - so I don't see how what you wrote refutes my point. The issue I raise in my post is that the Yes on 36 campaign is using studies in a distorted and dysfunctional way to bolster their arguments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, &#8220;Gender Specific&#8221;, isn&#8217;t the point then that any studies comparing heterosexual and homosexual couples&#8217; childraising have been inconclusive?  I essentially said this already in my post: <i>&#8230;there have been no valid longitudinal studies of the effects on children raised by gay couples&#8230;</i> - so I don&#8217;t see how what you wrote refutes my point. The issue I raise in my post is that the Yes on 36 campaign is using studies in a distorted and dysfunctional way to bolster their arguments.
</p>
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		<title>by: Christine</title>
		<link>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11036</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 03:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11036</guid>
					<description>If one just reads the the initiative petition, the very first word is AMENDS....that sent Mike and I over the edge to vote NO! We think the constitution is just fine the way it stands.
We believe that our marriage is more spiritual (ie religious to some) than civil and we are Big believers is separation of CHURCH and STATE....and so, I say maybe we should just have  all CIVIL Unions and just drop the religious aspect of it, because in the end, we will still be spiritually connected and be taxed to death by the state - ergo we both win.
We are having this discussion in both my sociology of women class at this time, as well as my American Culture class (marriage &#38; kinship section).....while I find the social construction pieces of this fascinating, I am getting quite tired of all the politicans and their staffs gleaning/using only portions of their opponents records in an effort to WIN...it just seems that the WINNING part of it is more  important than what happens when Wednesday November 3 rolls around.....
We (Americans) have such tiny hearts when consumed with EGO.....it's no wonder that much of the globe don't like us - sorry I digressed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one just reads the the initiative petition, the very first word is AMENDS&#8230;.that sent Mike and I over the edge to vote NO! We think the constitution is just fine the way it stands.<br />
We believe that our marriage is more spiritual (ie religious to some) than civil and we are Big believers is separation of CHURCH and STATE&#8230;.and so, I say maybe we should just have  all CIVIL Unions and just drop the religious aspect of it, because in the end, we will still be spiritually connected and be taxed to death by the state - ergo we both win.<br />
We are having this discussion in both my sociology of women class at this time, as well as my American Culture class (marriage &amp; kinship section)&#8230;..while I find the social construction pieces of this fascinating, I am getting quite tired of all the politicans and their staffs gleaning/using only portions of their opponents records in an effort to WIN&#8230;it just seems that the WINNING part of it is more  important than what happens when Wednesday November 3 rolls around&#8230;..<br />
We (Americans) have such tiny hearts when consumed with EGO&#8230;..it&#8217;s no wonder that much of the globe don&#8217;t like us - sorry I digressed!
</p>
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		<title>by: Gender Specific</title>
		<link>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11035</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.strangechord.com/2004/10/27/measure-36-debate-and-distortions/#comment-11035</guid>
					<description>Don't believe everything you read.

A number of studies in recent years have purported to show that children raised in gay and lesbian households fare no worse than those reared in traditional families. Yet much of that research fails to meet acceptable standards for psychological research; it is compromised by methodological flaws and driven by political agendas instead of an objective search for truth. 

In addition, openly lesbian researchers sometimes conduct research with an interest in portraying homosexual parenting in a positive light. The deficiencies of studies on homosexual parenting include reliance upon an inadequate sample size, lack of random sampling, lack of anonymity of research participants, and self-presentation bias.

In their thorough review of homosexual parenting studies, Robert Lerner and Althea K. Nagai found little evidence to support the oft-repeated mantra that homosexual households are "just like" traditional families: "We conclude that the methods used in these studies are so flawed that these studies prove nothing. Therefore, they should not be used in legal cases to make any argument about 'homosexual vs. heterosexual' parenting. Their claims have no basis."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t believe everything you read.</p>
<p>A number of studies in recent years have purported to show that children raised in gay and lesbian households fare no worse than those reared in traditional families. Yet much of that research fails to meet acceptable standards for psychological research; it is compromised by methodological flaws and driven by political agendas instead of an objective search for truth. </p>
<p>In addition, openly lesbian researchers sometimes conduct research with an interest in portraying homosexual parenting in a positive light. The deficiencies of studies on homosexual parenting include reliance upon an inadequate sample size, lack of random sampling, lack of anonymity of research participants, and self-presentation bias.</p>
<p>In their thorough review of homosexual parenting studies, Robert Lerner and Althea K. Nagai found little evidence to support the oft-repeated mantra that homosexual households are &#8220;just like&#8221; traditional families: &#8220;We conclude that the methods used in these studies are so flawed that these studies prove nothing. Therefore, they should not be used in legal cases to make any argument about &#8216;homosexual vs. heterosexual&#8217; parenting. Their claims have no basis.&#8221;
</p>
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